Stand up and be counted - OFFICERS!!!

[Kyle313]

I agree with everyone about getting back to the basics and have always been a firm believer in "attention to detail" and "do sweat the small stuff and the big stuff will fall into place". On the other hand though, I do fall into the "I get tired of being the only one doing it the right way or I'm the only one doing it that way" alot of the time and it drags you down. I see more "do my 8 hit the gate" guys and gals around. We need more dedicated professional officers. Iowa's policy about the pats and cell searches is great. When I worked for state DOC and had open yards we also had to perform a certain number of pats and locker searches each day. What I found was the the same officers were always picking the same inmates, the ones with minimal property, or the ones they knew wouldn't be carrying anything so as to avoid confrontation and/or paperwork. And I found more officers would be doing this than those doing the right thing and hitting the inmates we all knew were carrying or questionable. Admin got wind of this and started making the Sgt.'s go behind the officers and spot check the cells/lockers and inmates pats later on in the day. When I made sergeant, I started handing yard officers a list of inmates who I knew had something and wanted patted down on my yard. This held not only the inmates, but the officers accountable also. Then there is the officer who lets the little things go, an extra this or that, no big deal......you all know the kind I speak of. I know each officer has their own style, but it all starts in the interview process. Facilities need to hire a better quality of professional rather than scrape the bottom of the the barrel just to fill positions. We need more hardcore, dedicated professionals, period. We all scream about management holding inmates accountable for their actions, what about holding that officer, who lets the little things go, accountable. I know we are all short staffed and they don't want to discipline officers for little petty stuff because they want to retain them, but it needs to start somewhere. Just my thoughts......Alright, I know many of you will disagree with this post so I'm ready for the constructive comments and/or flogging I've got comming.

[ww1flyingace]

Originally Posted by Iowa #1603

The point of searching inmates is to prevent:

........

..............an officers death.



The fact that officers have died doesnt work. Hasnt worked obviously. People choose to forget this fact to get through their day.

I hope you werent trying to quote my own signature to remind me of what all of this is all about. You were just trying to emphasize your point. I'm kind of confused by how you chose to respond.

Scott Williams death, at least in my opinion, is not considered to be a watershed moment throughout the BOP. ISOLATED INCIDENT . He is just one more officer who got killed. Oh wow, that sucked, sad story, happened 11 years ago - now how does this effect me. Basically, that happened over there. It wont happen to me.

Unfortunately based on watching my co-workers reactions to Riveras death, his death wont be a defining moment either. There is no serious uproar to change policy. No outrage. Just business as usual. The same level of complacency and begrunged tolerance of managements inmate loving policies as the day before June 20th.

Officers dont go to work dwelling on the deaths of prior workers. They are just trying to get through the day. Not have the lieutenant give them a bad eval, not do seemingly pointless things like search inmates or tell them no because they dont see the principle behind it. They have learned they will be paid for not "Stirring up trouble" and get promoted for maintaining the illusions of a quiet posts, so why bother.

Please dont interpret what I said as an acceptance of that behaviour or attitude. Just an observation. Im not those officers, I may attempt to understand their behavior and attitudes, but dont agree with it. I'd like to think Ive maintained a certain level of seriousness and understanding of how important it is to search inmates no matter what the situation - no matter how jaded I might be, whether I were at the 13 year mark or on my last year before retirement. I'm trying to not to brag, but trust me Im not that guy - Ive been the one swatting hornets nests.

One thing I liked about USP Lompoc is there is a big F'ing sign on the administration building letting you know where you are. I used to read it everyday to remind me where I was.

My entire point I guess is we are not seeing the big picture in custody because we are limiting ourselves to our own selfish immediate needs. It is more than just doing our jobs - it is about understanding how things work on this starship (Sorry I just used a Startrek: Wrath of Khan reference for those of you didnt get that ). The people we are working for and the inmates are reading between the lines and exploiting it and we are not. Were not calling them on their BS and letting them get away with it.

You and I being reminded that at any moment some thug could run up on you and stab you in the chest just doesnt work for everybody. Staff have other day to day fears that need to be accounted for.

[Iowa #1603]

Originally Posted by Kyle313

I agree with everyone about getting back to the basics and have always been a firm believer in "attention to detail" and "do sweat the small stuff and the big stuff will fall into place". On the other hand though, I do fall into the "I get tired of being the only one doing it the right way or I'm the only one doing it that way" alot of the time and it drags you down. I see more "do my 8 hit the gate" guys and gals around. We need more dedicated professional officers. Iowa's policy about the pats and cell searches is great. When I worked for state DOC and had open yards we also had to perform a certain number of pats and locker searches each day. What I found was the the same officers were always picking the same inmates, the ones with minimal property, or the ones they knew wouldn't be carrying anything so as to avoid confrontation and/or paperwork. And I found more officers would be doing this than those doing the right thing and hitting the inmates we all knew were carrying or questionable. Admin got wind of this and started making the Sgt.'s go behind the officers and spot check the cells/lockers and inmates pats later on in the day. When I made sergeant, I started handing yard officers a list of inmates who I knew had something and wanted patted down on my yard. This held not only the inmates, but the officers accountable also. Then there is the officer who lets the little things go, an extra this or that, no big deal......you all know the kind I speak of. I know each officer has their own style, but it all starts in the interview process. Facilities need to hire a better quality of professional rather than scrape the bottom of the the barrel just to fill positions. We need more hardcore, dedicated professionals, period. We all scream about management holding inmates accountable for their actions, what about holding that officer, who lets the little things go, accountable. I know we are all short staffed and they don't want to discipline officers for little petty stuff because they want to retain them, but it needs to start somewhere. Just my thoughts......Alright, I know many of you will disagree with this post so I'm ready for the constructive comments and/or flogging I've got comming.

I agree 100% with pretty much eveything you posted. We have and have always had the same type of LOP's you talk about.

My contention has always been, and always will be.........I do MY job as I was trained...........I know that when I search a cell or an inmate .....the search is complete. I have the "reprimands" to prove that inmates don't like me shaking them down.

When we do find shanks, or any other weapon in our institution........I take them to roll call and SHOW them to the staff coming on duty....SEE, THIS IS WHAT OUR NICE CLIENTS MADE TODAY. It is part of my job as a supervisor to remind the line staff of the danger we face daily. I also try when I am interviewing prospective staff.......to find that right type of employee........sometimes I am right .......sometimes not so much.

I also am not really well liked by a few of the line staff because I hold the people that work for me to MY standards. I want everyone to go home at night. Most of the staff understand where I am coming from......but then there are a few..............


ww1flyingace
we are on the same page just a different wavelength. Yes I was trying to emphasize my point.
Iowa has not had an officer killed on duty by an inmate since 1972 which was before I started in Corrections so I don't know exactly how it feels. However I have had friends killed on duty in LE.

From what I see on the forum, I probably couldn't work in the BOP enviroment. I would get fired.

[coloradosgt79]

I always tell new officers if your not getting grievances your not doing your job. If your consistant in what you do the inmates will no where you stand and will do what you tell them. They can respect that.We had some Inmates come back to Colorado from oklahoma.Let me tell oklahoma had them inmates squared away.The first day they came to chow I stepped out into the hallway to watch them coming out of the unit.They were walking to the right side of the hallway no more than 2 wide.Their undershirts were tucked in as well as their greens.They sat down and ate quickly,also they said yes sir and no sir.They majority of these inmates we had in oklahoma are doing at least 20 plus years. I was thinking what in the heck did oklahoma do to these guys beat them.Cheers to oklahoma.Thats what happens when you have all of your officers consistantly stay on the basics.

[Area51]

Hey guys,

I actually saw it in practice today!!!

I thought the Lt may have read my post or mind...

About 8:30 this morning he called a 333 ROW CALL! Haven't saw that in a while... He wants officers in front of the units PATTING DOWN inmates as they exit the unit and yard. Do at least 1 good cell search. But would like 5 or 6. Walk the floors, Walk the ranges Make ROUNDS That is what you are there for... This will keep inmates out of the units that do not belong there, will cut down on homosexual activities, (Yepp he went there) passing contraband, stop the drinking...

Guys, It was UNREAL! The inmates were walking around in a state of confusion This SAME LT. was in the center of the compound PAT SEARCHING INMATES HIMSELF!

THIS is what I was talking about!

Grow some, show some leadership! The gang will follow, if you don't do like the others YOU feel like the dummy....

I had inmates telling me "Hey CO, I've already been patted down 3 times....

OK, This is 4, my #2 standing by me... He will make 5... you have 3 more housing units to pass by that should be a total of 11, not including the compound officers 14! The inmate shook his head and turned around with his arms raised... End of Game...


It can be done guys, I have saw it with my own eyes... I can be done, it takes a little effort on everyones part... to make a big effort over all.

We can make a difference as individuals, and a major difference as a group!!!

As I said, It was a GREAT day to day!!!

TDG in DA HOUSE!!

[all4114all]

Originally Posted by coloradosgt79

I always tell new officers if your not getting grievances your not doing your job. If your consistant in what you do the inmates will no where you stand and will do what you tell them.

Well, tell them to not take the grievances or request for information personally either. As a responder to those complaints, I am required to fully investigate before drawing a conclusion. THIS DOES NOT MEAN I BELIEVE THE INMATE!!!!! It means that anything he alleges must be addressed and checked out. If he says you punched him in the head, I have to report that. If he says you called him a F'in lowlifescumbucket piece of >>>>, then I have to get your statement. IT IS MY JOB!!!

99% of the time staff is in the right and the inmate is either blowing up the situation into something that it really was not or his poor little ole feelings got hurt!

The other 1% unfortunately the staff member was in the wrong. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I FRONT THEM OUT. I might say, "CO soandso admits to saying you were a blah blah blah. Your complaint has been addressed. Your are not privy to personnel actions."

The inmate can assume you got in trouble, but perhaps all I did was tell you, Hey man (or woman) don't do that. You are making more work for me and you. ha ha BUT there are a few occasions where I had to refer that to the immediate supervisor for corrective action. Or refer for specific training. Again, the inmate knows NOTHING!

But it is no big deal. I have been told, "Don't do that. Don't say that. Maybe say that." Oh well.

I think I have been rambling now and don't remember what this thread was about. That is what a couple beers does to me! lol

[Homer]

Originally Posted by Area51

I found this on another thread, It got me to thinking...



On this part of his quote he is 100% correct, it rests on CORRECTIONAL SERVICES and CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS shoulders to effect the changes we need in our institutions.

I for one am starting to make a difference, with the death of Rivera, I have made a promise to myself to come in and do my J O B... The one I was hired to do, the one I was accustomed to doing at the beginning.

Its not that I haven't been or I am lazy... But with 19 in, most staff want to coast the few remaining years they have... I had developed that mind set as well.

I had thought about putting in for a cushy post (20th on a roster of 130+) but, I think I will put in for D/W compound or another post that I can effect a change for the institution. From there I will be able to accomplish some of the things I see wrong around me in the institution...

Things such as:

Inmates gotta walk and talk... No hanging out or loitering in front of the units.. We have gotten away from that.

Random pat searches. If necessary strip searches...

Check work crews items, are all the items there? Contraband? Why are they in this area?

Keeping the compound clear during chow instead of letting the inmate roam freely. "Walk and talk, Walk and talk" "Pick a direction gentlemen and walk!"

Keeping inmates in check, writing incident reports to make sure they keep themselves in check.

Actually checking security items to make sure they are like they are supposed to be. Taking the time to do the paper work to get it fixed, AND FOLLOW UP ON IT.

Pulling new officers up and demonstrate to them how things are done old school. (I do this now) Make it a point to search them out and give them a hand.

Challenge older officers to do the same. Put them on the spot to make a difference as well. Call them out.

I think it is time we all stepped up to the plate and begin to make a difference in our own institutions. Although it may be a small difference, it will be a part of the solution instead of the problem.

We have grown accustomed to sitting around and moaning about we can't do this, we can't do that, we need this, we need that...

What we NEED is to get off our duffs and begin to make the changes in OUR institutions in the ways we can. As individuals, it will not be that great, collectively... Ants move mountains compared to their body sizes...

These are OUR institutions, WE need to run our house!

This site has been a boon for me. It shows there are older officers that DO care and want to step up to the plate. I think we should follow in their example, WE need to do this as a team!

Anyone want to join with me?

We have a syndrone whereby it seems to be exceptable for everyone to skirt their responsibilties We all have position descriptions, I read a couple lately...had to laugh. You are 100 % right about "getting back on track" although, I learned you can't save the Bureau by yourself...I'm a counselor, no secrets from me. Too old and I handle my business. Anyway. When I was young, I used to test the counselors in the units I worked...Not to the point of making them angry but to the point of making them teach me....In 8 years I could probably count on one hand how many young staff have asked my take on a situation...I used to take pride in keeper the riff-raft out of my unit...that's right, D/W CO's own the unit they work in. Yes, E/W and M/W set the tempo, but D/W always got their heads right. Now, you can walk in a unit Monday through Friday and the place is trashed....I know, the Counselors there all day, why can't he do some sanitation rounds...I shouldn't have to. It's everyones job to keep a place clean, but it's a D/W officers job to tighten up the unit and put the ORDS to work, and kick the lamb asses out.
Bottom line is...We all have jobs that overlap...Read Policy, talk to those that care and take charge of your piece of the pie...Don't wait on other. Management By Walking Around MBWA....Sorry for the rambling. Sensitive subject as you can tell.

[all4114all]

Originally Posted by Homer

We have a syndrone whereby it seems to be exceptable for everyone to skirt their responsibilties I know, the Counselors there all day, why can't he do some sanitation rounds...I shouldn't have to. It's everyones job to keep a place clean, but it's a D/W officers job to tighten up the unit and put the ORDS to work, and kick the lamb asses out.

Hmmm not sure what you mean exactly by this but .....
You state the counselor is there all day and shouldn't have to make sanitation rounds but in two other sentences describe how it is everyone's job and everyone skirting their responsibilities.

Sounds like you are skirting yours and that you shouldn't have to....

Is that really what you meant? Really you used to do your job but now you don't have to? I hope that you just had some typos and forgot a word here or there but here is my thought on that.

I am a unit manager. I have people who work for me: counselors, counselor assistants, secretary and officers, lots of officers.. I expect ALL of them to participate in unit operations ALL unit operations. Granted the secretary is not permitted to assist with cell searches and unit inspections, but she is responsible for her area. What if she said, I am not going to do any searches, that is not my job. BS. She has an office, she has our offices, she has the bathroom that I would freely let her search. As for everyone else, they are expected to help with inspections, followup, etc. If you see something wrong, FIX IT!!!

Don't pretend you didnt' see it. Don't act like it all falls on the officers. While they are running around like crazy people trying to keep up with just regular stuff, you can AND SHOULD help.

Teamwork, folks, TEAMwork.

[Area51]

I've noticed unit teams have a tendency to isolate themselves behind locked doors, they are "busy"...

I am forgetful at times, its just, I can't remember to lock that unit team door... Uhhhh now what did I come in here for? Danggg I left it on my desk... Yeah.... THAT's where I left it...

LOL

[Grandma]

I've got inmates that start tucking their shirts in as soon as they see me now. It's a small thing but they're doing it. Yep, we've got to remember that a lot of the problems can begin and end with US. We set the tone for the shift, the unit, the compound.

This site has really helped to refocus me on what's important about my job. Doing the little things, so the big things don't happen and we can all go home after 8hrs.

Hats off to Area51!!