Vests for CO's???

[Custodian]

An object like that could be somewhat magnetic, with its intended wearer wearing a small electromagnet.

[Devenshack]

Originally Posted by CqCasting

Maybe someone will wake up and get BOP protected with some body armer. With any luck it will trickle down to the State Level.
My concern with having batons, OC, or Tasers is the ability of populated inmate areas. They have the opportunity of jumping staff and taking it away from them. Don't mean to tic anyone off, but where I work we are out numbered.

where we all work we are out numbered, and the way I see it, if I am working a unit and an inmate takes my protection devise, that just opens the door to bringing in more staff with more intense weaponry if they took my baton, then I hope they are a good batter when they come in with the L8 shooting the beanbags and foam batons.

[Kebemt]

Originally Posted by Devenshack

where we all work we are out numbered, and the way I see it, if I am working a unit and an inmate takes my protection devise, that just opens the door to bringing in more staff with more intense weaponry if they took my baton, then I hope they are a good batter when they come in with the L8 shooting the beanbags and foam batons.

lol I like the way you think bud!!!

[GUNNER]

Originally Posted by Devenshack

where we all work we are out numbered, and the way I see it, if I am working a unit and an inmate takes my protection devise, that just opens the door to bringing in more staff with more intense weaponry if they took my baton, then I hope they are a good batter when they come in with the L8 shooting the beanbags and foam batons.

Thats what Im saying. Most of the reasons that come out as to why we shouldnt have these things have been started at the top of the BOP.

[Gaoler]

Originally Posted by GUNNER

Thats what Im saying. Most of the reasons that come out as to why we shouldnt have these things have been started at the top of the BOP.

And then people actually start to believe them.

That whole "if you have one, then they can take it and use it against you" argument is one of the biggest lies the anti-gun people (i.e. Brady Bunch, etc.) have been trying to sell to people for years. It's complete bull****. Same goes with "if you wear a vest they will go for your neck" or "if you carry a baton they'll take it and use it against you or other staff" or "if you wear a vest they'll take it and be protected against other staff". If for some reason an inmate does somehow get ahold of your equipment and tries to use it to defend themselves, that is why we have SORT/DCT/CERT/LERT/etc!

[copboy]

I love the argument or fear that since the officer is out numbered they cant have this or that. If an officer is in a unit with 2 inmates he is out numbered. If he is in the unit with 100 or more and they turn on him, he can at least take 1 down with him.

[Area51]

Originally Posted by Devenshack

where we all work we are out numbered, and the way I see it, if I am working a unit and an inmate takes my protection devise, that just opens the door to bringing in more staff with more intense weaponry if they took my baton, then I hope they are a good batter when they come in with the L8 shooting the beanbags and foam batons.

With defensive items such as batons pepper and such I have always been taught...

"In the hands of a trained professional that is certified it is a tool of the trade, in the hands of an untrained aggressor it is ALWAYS a weapon."

The distinctions are easy to make.

You must do what is necessary to gain control of the individual before he harms you or someone else.

[CqCasting]

Originally Posted by BOPCO87

Of course it can be taken away. As a trooper, or any other law enforcement officer they can have their firearm, spray or baton taken too. It is a risk, but one worth taken more times then not. I am all for the spray. If we go batons I would prefer we use the PR-24 because you do have the extra control measure in the short handle. I am a Monadnock certified instructor with the PR and the ASP. When I was on the street I carried the PR as personal preference just for the extra control. However, whether it be a vest, spray, baton, or hopefully additional staffing if we get anything it will be a step in the right direction. I know I am dreaming big, but I am game for anything right now.

I could agree with you 100%, but I know that the majority of our line staff don't get enough use in the techniques in proper use, moves and weapon retention to be affective. We have a large number of fng's who haven't even been exposed to use of force.
If you don't work in IMU=Intensive Management Units or are on the ERT or SERT team you don't get the continued training required to be effective. Don't get me wrong, we have great instructors. The problem is in scheduling. Once a year isn't enough when one goes months without getting involved with Use of Force.
One solution for us would be to have a rotation of line staff included in ERT & SERT training.

[Devenshack]

Originally Posted by CqCasting

I could agree with you 100%, but I know that the majority of our line staff don't get enough use in the techniques in proper use, moves and weapon retention to be affective. We have a large number of fng's who haven't even been exposed to use of force.
If you don't work in IMU=Intensive Management Units or are on the ERT or SERT team you don't get the continued training required to be effective. Don't get me wrong, we have great instructors. The problem is in scheduling. Once a year isn't enough when one goes months without getting involved with Use of Force.
One solution for us would be to have a rotation of line staff included in ERT & SERT training.

That is a pathetic managment answer. Sure most line staff dont have the training to handle these protection devices. but that should change. It is that assbackwards excuse that gets us all in trouble. It is that answer that stops the wheels from moving forward. From us getting the protection we need and deserve. Sorry but 3 weeks in Glynco is not enough, we are a joke in the federal law enforcement community because we have one of the toughest jobs out there but our training for it sucks. Thats right I said it. They are hell bent on teaching us stupid policies that are made to protect inmates, yet they do not take the time necessary to protect our own lives. It is pathetic to think that they could not approve the money for training for something that would save staff members, and boost morale. Yet we have no problem spending the money so that inmates can have access to email, Give them holiday baskets. This system is backwards in that it cares more about the inmates than the staff running the institutions. Society shows us all all mean b@stards that pick on inmates, yet they fail to show the truth. We are men and women that go into hell each day to do a job with nothing on our backs but a cheap shirt that will fall apart and pants that will split at the seams. For them to say they cant afford 400 dollars for a vest that would save my life is pathetic.
So please, stop complaining we cant have the tools to protect ourselves because we arent trained, and give us the training necessary and the tools to do our jobs.
We need to get a manager in there that can run a schedule and allow for more than 4 days of annual training, I dont care about ART it is a waste of time that teaches staff nothing. Why now teach us the necessary skills we need to save ourselves, not just let the force pass...

[Thorn]

You wouldn't have to have "use of force" on any inmate if you got a shotgun barrel aimed in his direction. Just crack the door and say "Do what we say and your f-cking head will stay attached to your neck!"