Flashlights and Liability

[Xochitl]

I taught high school for years and even though I loved my students, if i would have had a crazy student who tried to attack me, even I would have used a maglite, a chair, or whatever was available. There is no way I am going to die on the job if I can help it. Well, high school is hardly prison, so I think it is reasonable that if you are really being attacked you can defend yourself. I don't know about the law. That is always another question and each case is usually looked at individually until it gets to the high courts. Don't they give you mace or something?

[conkicker241]

Originally Posted by shakedownshorti

I don't care about any laws, or any of that BS, I have the right to protect myself and if I was at work being attacked and all I had was a mag light, a folding chair, a notebook or anything else for that matter, I would be bashing someones head in!!!! They could sue me, hell, what do I have nothing, I worked for the BOP, I got a bad attitude, but I like that too much so I would put up a fight if they tried to take that! I had a guy pull out his Jimmy in my office and the first thing I grabbed was a wooden ruler with the metal edge, I grabbed that with my left hand because I am left-handed and I would be able to cut it off easier, and my radio with the other and I told him if he moved, I would cut that mother off, needless to say when compound got there it was still in his hand and he was scared! Don't think for a minute I wouldn't have used the force necessary or the weapon in my hand to do what I needed to do to protect myself!

amen sister, shorti. My self-defense instructor, said do what you have to do, to go home. Fight I/R later. They say to tell them my life was threated, so I stopped the threat. I wanted to go home, to my family. Hell they have all day to lift weights and bulk up. One blow from one of these muscle bound idoits and I might not go home. So I will do what I have to do.

[Von Nanega]

Originally Posted by shakedownshorti

Not all BOP facilities are like that, some of the high-rises authorize the use of the side handle baton, or better known as the PR-24, I don't know if they all do but I do know that some of them use them!

You are right. But those side handle batons have to be approved by the Regional Director for everyday use inside institutions. I have (and do) carry large mag-lites inside. But with the way the KGB is going, soon they will not allow them because the lights will be an unaccounted for tool. Lompoc had a captain once who tried to write up officers who bought their own stab vests. I feel bad times comin' along. Keep your chin up and your back guarded.

[AZCorrections84]

I don't work for the BOP but the State of Arizona is much in the same way. They told us if we used ANY other method of self defense other than that which was taught to us at the academy, the department would not back us. (not that the department would back any of its staff anyway! ha). But hell, if it came down to it, I'm slapping the crap out of someone with my radio. If something goes down it's game on, and I'm going home at the end of the day.

[gijanetexas]

Originally Posted by Big Bwana Jake

Here at Leavenworth, we had a sitution dealing with a rec services officer when he used his Mag Light as a self defence weapon. I was asked, due to my possision as the lead self defence instructor, what liability are we subjected to if or when we use the flashlight while defending ourselves. If you BOP staff out there will look on the Use of force form, BPS538.056 page three, there is an area that askes weather a Mag Light was used in the use of force situation.

Alas, we are not trained by the BOP in tactics dealing spesificly with the flashlight. So I contacted Glynco GA training center and got with the instructor that certified me. This is a good instructor, a real world type. And this is what he sent back to be.

You're right, it is a gray area without clear cut specifics. Here's how I see it. The Mag Light is not considered a self defence weapon like the riot baton or chemical agents and is issued for other purposes. However, if a situation occured when faced with an assaultive inmate, I believe the officer is justified in defending himself to the best of his ability. If the only means of defence is the flashlight, I would say maintaining his safety is the main priority. As for perception, again every one has a diffrent perception of danger, but you have to use good judgement and common sense and relate it to our use of force model. The inmate is clearly assaultive based on his actions, body language, threats,and facial expressions. If that is the case, I need to defend myself to the best of my ability and only use the ammount of force nessary to gain control of the situation.
I wish I could give you a more definitive answer, but I don't see any thing more clear cut in policy.

Those are his words and all I can say on that is, ' Reasonable Officers Perception'.

Hopefully times I have not changed since I went to our fabulous three weeks of fun training in Georgia. They told us if an inmate attacks you can hit them with whatever you have handy to get them off of you. But then when the inmate was on the ground you must stop.

[Greg]

Originally Posted by AZCorrections84

I don't work for the BOP but the State of Arizona is much in the same way. They told us if we used ANY other method of self defense other than that which was taught to us at the academy, the department would not back us. (not that the department would back any of its staff anyway! ha). But hell, if it came down to it, I'm slapping the crap out of someone with my radio. If something goes down it's game on, and I'm going home at the end of the day.

That's just wrong.

We are taught to use our control tactics for dealing with convicts when they become resistive, but we are also taught that if we are personally attacked that we are authorized to do whatever we have to do to defend ourselves. Obviously, your report will sound a lot better if you can cite all of the different techniques you used in subduing the inmate. If the inmate is attacking you ,however, and you bean him with a maglight, chair, fire extinguisher, or anything else, you are not likely to get in trouble. Staff are allowed to protect themselves, period.

Outside of a staff member maliciously attacking an inmate just because they felt like it, we get backed by our department.

[lowlygovemployee]

We had an officer "defend himself" from an inmate at Beaumont Low, with a mag. The inmate attacked him in the Officers Station, he grabbed the Mag and got his rec on. End of the day, the Officer went home safe, as far as I am concerned it was a good day.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

That's why they are issued.

[Kyle313]

Originally Posted by AZCorrections84

I don't work for the BOP but the State of Arizona is much in the same way. They told us if we used ANY other method of self defense other than that which was taught to us at the academy, the department would not back us. (not that the department would back any of its staff anyway! ha). But hell, if it came down to it, I'm slapping the crap out of someone with my radio. If something goes down it's game on, and I'm going home at the end of the day.

We are told the same thing at our facility.....but then they go that step further and state that in an unprovoked personal attack....to use what ever means necessary to go home alive. Our facility has camera's everywhere so I am confident that if the inmate attacks me, and I whoop his ass with whatever is there, a jury will see it for what it is, a true fight for my life....When its all said and done, I really don't care what the administration has to say if they don't back me...I can find another career....I don't want my family to find another husband and father......also....make sure you put in the report that, even though you used unapproved methods, you only used the amount of force necessary to bring the inmate under control, this should cover it....hehehe

[KBCraig]

I don't know about the current version, but some years back the "538" form (report of use of force) had checkboxes for type of force used:
-Firearm
-Baton
-Maglite

No kidding, they had it listed by brand name.

While I disagree with the downscaled self defense training (compared to the full-on Aikido training we used to do), they did do one thing right: official BOP policy for use of force is that you can use anything you can lay your hands on to defend yourself.

"Step back and cross-grab"... a mop wringer. Fire extinguisher. Telephone. Computer monitor. Do what you got to do.