FOP Representation

[Iowa #1603]

Originally Posted by Hack

You would think so. They normally have to make sure they have all documentation; that all t's are crossed and all i's are dotted.

However in attempting to look at both sides of an issue, what did they use for their justification, to execute this demotion? And, I'm not being on one side or another, it's just being my normal inquisitive self.

I do not disagree............

At my facility we have demoted 2 Lts & 2 Sgts in the last 15 yrs, but all were for disciplinary reasons and had the necessary documentation to back it up.

Check out the following:

YouTube - Jamie Lawrence-KY Corrections Officer

Union Representation Battle - NewsChannel 6 WPSD

Looks like there is a union battle in KY right now!

BUT as of now FOP is NOT your bargaining agent so going to them would be worthless.................AFSCME is your agent and you would need to go thru them for representation..................If they won't represent you.........................." Ah....Huston, we have a problem"

[Hack]

Iowa #1603. I can definitely understand where the officer is coming from. I will tell you this. I was a member of AFSCME as well as a union steward for my local, because I saw a need that I could meet, that of representation for bargaining unit employees, when I was working for Missouri. Back at the time when AFSCME was the bargaining unit agency for Missouri employees there were some difficulties that were hard for some to deal with. The employees where I was working felt they had limited resources with AFSCME. Our union would meet and confer with the Missouri Department Of Corrections on appointed occasions, but true collective bargaining never actually took place. There were times that the meet and confer session basically consisted of the Missouri DOC admin, saying they met and conferred with us, without actually saying anything. I learned later after I had left Missouri and rejoined the feds under the BOP, that AFSCME was thrown out in favor of another organization that was entirely for Missouri Corrections Officers, called the Missouri Corrections Officers Association.

[Iowa #1603]

Originally Posted by Hack

Iowa #1603. I can definitely understand where the officer is coming from. I will tell you this. I was a member of AFSCME as well as a union steward for my local, because I saw a need that I could meet, that of representation for bargaining unit employees, when I was working for Missouri. Back at the time when AFSCME was the bargaining unit agency for Missouri employees there were some difficulties that were hard for some to deal with. The employees where I was working felt they had limited resources with AFSCME. Our union would meet and confer with the Missouri Department Of Corrections on appointed occasions, but true collective bargaining never actually took place. There were times that the meet and confer session basically consisted of the Missouri DOC admin, saying they met and conferred with us, without actually saying anything. I learned later after I had left Missouri and rejoined the feds under the BOP, that AFSCME was thrown out in favor of another organization that was entirely for Missouri Corrections Officers, called the Missouri Corrections Officers Association.

Hack
I am not arguing the point.................I don't disagree that sometimes members don't agree with the union officials that are handling their case, and many times they should disagree wtih them.

The point of AFSCME and FOP having a certification battle is a side note that could or could not have a bearing on his problem.

I too was a AFSCME member, union steward, local e-board member, trustee......and did some dishes during meetings
For many years.............Until I was forced to resign due to the promotion(don't go there! I admit it was a mistake)...............Iowa Council 61 was and still is a very strong voice for corrections. It helps that Council 61 president is usually a corrections person.....we have had only one president who was not from corrections in the last 30 yrs. and her husband was a corrections officer.

I was around when the Teamsters tried to decertify AFSCME in Iowa Corrections. AFSCME won.

The point of my postings are..................right now he doesn't have the option of FOP representation unless KY law allows double representation. I doubt that would happen. I think union representation at a grievance hearing would get to the bottom of the matter and that the master contract should compell the administration to give up the documentation on the demotion.

[Hack]

Originally Posted by Iowa #1603

Hack
I am not arguing the point.................I don't disagree that sometimes members don't agree with the union officials that are handling their case, and many times they should disagree wtih them.

The point of AFSCME and FOP having a certification battle is a side note that could or could not have a bearing on his problem.

I too was a AFSCME member, union steward, local e-board member, trustee......and did some dishes during meetings
For many years.............Until I was forced to resign due to the promotion(don't go there! I admit it was a mistake)...............Iowa Council 61 was and still is a very strong voice for corrections. It helps that Council 61 president is usually a corrections person.....we have had only one president who was not from corrections in the last 30 yrs. and her husband was a corrections officer.

I was around when the Teamsters tried to decertify AFSCME in Iowa Corrections. AFSCME won.

The point of my postings are..................right now he doesn't have the option of FOP representation unless KY law allows double representation. I doubt that would happen. I think union representation at a grievance hearing would get to the bottom of the matter and that the master contract should compell the administration to give up the documentation on the demotion.

I understand what you're saying. I'm also saying that perhaps there is something else to consider. AFSCME in Missouri lost out due to some things that were not working right, (sorry I don't know the details), so perhaps there is something going on where he is at.

I do agree that he should go ahead with getting the union local involved for the time being and follow that all the way to its conclusion and go further if need be.

I'm not saying that the local you were once in isn't a good local, and good for them.

[Iowa #1603]

Originally Posted by Hack

I understand what you're saying. I'm also saying that perhaps there is something else to consider. AFSCME in Missouri lost out due to some things that were not working right, (sorry I don't know the details), so perhaps there is something going on where he is at.

I do agree that he should go ahead with getting the union local involved for the time being and follow that all the way to its conclusion and go further if need be.

I'm not saying that the local you were once in isn't a good local, and good for them.

I think we agree, just saying things differently.

A lot of locals and and lot of councils have problems!...........

As far as looking as to WHY he was demoted.........we can't tell until the documentation is provided......... The officer states there was none provided when he was demoted.jsut "poor job performance"..........I do not buy the fact that the prison doesn't have that documentation.........( I am not calling the offficer a liar.................I am calling the administiration liars if they are saying they don't have documentation)

I would also like to know if he was on probation at the time. In the Iowa system you are on probation for 6 months after a promotion....................and they can and occasionally do not retain people while on the promotion probation. (yea its rare, but it happens) They need much less documentation to demote a new Sgt, Lt, 'or Capt when they are still on their new probation!!!!!!! But they still have some reasonable documents to back them up.


jthompson02 has been pretty silent since his original post....................please keep us posted on how this works out................