Governor selling us ?

[COSpitfire]

So Brewer signed yesterday. Now we (DOC Prisons) can be bought by private companies. Thanks Brewer, I've just decided that I don't like you very much. It seems like we just won't be able to take a breather here in Arizona. Each year we have to worry whether they're going to lay off or whether they're going to cut our pay or whether they'll take our stipen and now this. We just can't seem to relax and feel secure at all. Each time we think it'll be okay, something else comes up. I have no idea what to expect. Will someone really invest in the dump that we work in ? The place is held together by duct tape for the most part. Brewer keeps playing with our future and makes decisions for our lives with the stroke of her pen. Nice going lady.

[AZCorrections84]

And I thought Napolitano was friggin horrible.

A buddy from work (north) texted me this info today. I'm on my RDO's so I haven't heard squat. There's nothing in the news about her signing it or on the DOC website. Go figure...It's discouraging to say the least. I really wish that AZ would get its act together and stop toying with our lives.

Seriously, do they not understand the devastating impact that some 3000+ job layoffs will have??

I'd rather not wear GEO gray or CCA white to work. I hate private prisons with a passion, however, I fear I may end up working for one because of one stupid woman's signature.

[jnram]

These are trying times for Arizona State Correctional Officers. As for me boys and girls, I'm getting out. I'm gonna take all of the training and opportunities I can away from ADC before the whole thing comes crashing down. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm sure that all of the Sheriff's Departments and Native Reservations will have an ample amount of applicants for years to come. It really is a shame, I intended to dedicate at least 20 years to the service of Arizona. On a side note, I thought about some of the negative things that have made it's way down the pipe just since I've been with the Department. I started in January of '07 folks. Enjoy...
.Eliminated Tuition Reimbursement
.Increased Cost of Health Ins. while reducing coverage every year since '07
.Decreased Military Leave from 240 hrs yearly to 240 hrs every 2 years
.Eliminated Stipends for all new Officers, and Officers transferring Complexes
.Officers on Commuter Vans now pay $50.00 monthly. (service was free)
.Overtime is non-existant (for line staff)
.This Department DOES NOT back their Officers
.Low starting pay/Low top-out pay. Regardless of the Stipends
.Very long salary ladder. It takes about 9 years to top out.
.Severely Decreased Staff Morale with talk of 5 year rotations
.Devastated Officer Morale at the prospect of privatization
.Let's face it, Admin and Upper Echelon is SEVERELY corrupt.

Let me just say that some of this is just my opinion after all, and I certainly don't want to offend anyone. I'm just EXTREMELY frustrated due to the latest news.

[COSpitfire]

Originally Posted by AZCorrections84

And I thought Napolitano was friggin horrible.

A buddy from work (north) texted me this info today. I'm on my RDO's so I haven't heard squat. There's nothing in the news about her signing it or on the DOC website. Go figure...It's discouraging to say the least. I really wish that AZ would get its act together and stop toying with our lives.

Seriously, do they not understand the devastating impact that some 3000+ job layoffs will have??

I'd rather not wear GEO gray or CCA white to work. I hate private prisons with a passion, however, I fear I may end up working for one because of one stupid woman's signature.

yep....that woman is horrible. word is that the union(s) are going to try to fight and block and delay any kind of sales until next year and then when the elections are up, 3000 officers plus their family members and probably friends will NOT be voting for her. seriously though, east, north, central look to horrible for anyone to want to buy them anyway. someone told me today that DOC is paying a $5000 fine each month because the building is considered condemned (don't know if it's true though about the $5000), basically unlivable. the only way that someone would buy that is if they would tear the place down and rebuild or put the money into repairs and i am not sure it's worth it. it will probably cost more money to repair the dump than tearing it down and building a new one. another theory that one of the COIIIs came up with is that the Federal might be stepping in and buy it. There are so many theories out there now that it'll make your head spin but my guess all the theories derive from fear, not knowing what'll happen to us, not knowing what's next. i'm telling you, we (the country) is going down in a hand basket. the thing is that NO industry is safe from going under, so, nobody can really afford to leave DOC because no matter where they go, there is no security anywhere right now. spoke with a colleague today who's husband is a cop, i wanted to know if they are facing problems and she said the only thing that happend to them was that for one year no pay raise and they lost 2% pay but no fear of lay offs. however, i don't put my hopes in any industry anymore. i'll just stay put and ride it out, see what happens and put my faith in the LORD.

[COSpitfire]

Originally Posted by jnram

These are trying times for Arizona State Correctional Officers. As for me boys and girls, I'm getting out. I'm gonna take all of the training and opportunities I can away from ADC before the whole thing comes crashing down. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm sure that all of the Sheriff's Departments and Native Reservations will have an ample amount of applicants for years to come. It really is a shame, I intended to dedicate at least 20 years to the service of Arizona. On a side note, I thought about some of the negative things that have made it's way down the pipe just since I've been with the Department. I started in January of '07 folks. Enjoy...
.Eliminated Tuition Reimbursement
.Increased Cost of Health Ins. while reducing coverage every year since '07
.Decreased Military Leave from 240 hrs yearly to 240 hrs every 2 years
.Eliminated Stipends for all new Officers, and Officers transferring Complexes
.Officers on Commuter Vans now pay $50.00 monthly. (service was free)
.Overtime is non-existant (for line staff)
.This Department DOES NOT back their Officers
.Low starting pay/Low top-out pay. Regardless of the Stipends
.Very long salary ladder. It takes about 9 years to top out.
.Severely Decreased Staff Morale with talk of 5 year rotations
.Devastated Officer Morale at the prospect of privatization
.Let's face it, Admin and Upper Echelon is SEVERELY corrupt.

Let me just say that some of this is just my opinion after all, and I certainly don't want to offend anyone. I'm just EXTREMELY frustrated due to the latest news.

no offense taken. you hit the nail on the head. still, don't rush into leaving too fast, like i said in my other post, there is no industry that is secure right now, everything is shaky everywhere. what frustrates me, i wanted to buy a house BUT with all this uncertainty, i can't and i won't enter into such a responsibility just to end up failing because of it all. these people keep playing with our lives, with our livelihoods while their butts are sitting in cushy chairs and they're playing golf every weekend BUT...my faith is strong and if there is one thing that i've learned in life, people who keep doing the rotten things will one day run into a brick wall, it's inevitable. everything comes to an end sooner or later. hang in there brothers and sisters, don't give up just yet.

[jnram]

Hey Spitfire - I hear what you're saying, and you better believe I've got a plan. I really don't think this is all gonna happen overnight. That said, I'm gonna push really hard to get some more specialized training and certificates on top of what I've got in the weeks and months ahead. Furthermore, I have plans for making myself a better candidate for other agencies outside of work as well. I said all of that to say this....I don't think it'll fall on us all at once, it's gonna take a year, maybe two or three even. But PLEASE don't fool yourself into thinking that you'll be safe for very long. What I find most amusing is that Admin at the units have been on extended vacations, or just not available for discussions lately. Coincidence? hmmm......
Stay safe Sister

[Iowa #1603]

Originally Posted by COSpitfire

So Brewer signed yesterday. Now we (DOC Prisons) can be bought by private companies. Thanks Brewer, I've just decided that I don't like you very much. It seems like we just won't be able to take a breather here in Arizona. Each year we have to worry whether they're going to lay off or whether they're going to cut our pay or whether they'll take our stipen and now this. We just can't seem to relax and feel secure at all. Each time we think it'll be okay, something else comes up. I have no idea what to expect. Will someone really invest in the dump that we work in ? The place is held together by duct tape for the most part. Brewer keeps playing with our future and makes decisions for our lives with the stroke of her pen. Nice going lady.

Think of it this way.......................if no one wants to invest in your "dump" the state has to keep it open................and you don't have to worry about it getting bought out........................YOU KEEP YOUR JOB.

[Iowa #1603]

Mind if I make a few comments?
This comes from someone who has no agenda or stake in the outcome of your troubles.

I want to note that as of today it APPEARS that the economy has probably turned the corner. The “recession” has for the most part ended and sales are going up in most camps. The EFFECTS of the recession will continue for a bit yet.

It normally takes about 18 months for tax receipts to notice the end of a recession……………..which is about how long it takes for the government to acknowledge that they were in a recession to begin with. (they use a rule of thumb that it takes about 5 full quarters of downturn before they call it official)

Therefore it will take about 1 ½ years before your state government sees increased revenue. It’s going to be a long time before we find a increase in our budgets.

Originally Posted by COSpitfire

yep....that woman is horrible. word is that the union(s) are going to try to fight and block and delay any kind of sales until next year and then when the elections are up, 3000 officers plus their family members and probably friends will NOT be voting for her

Sure the union will fight it. All they really need to do is delay the implementation for a year or so. By then the economy will have turned around enough to START to show that many cost cutting measures are really not going to be needed anymore. PLUS they would still have to find a buyer. Guess what……………….PRIVATE corrections are suffering from the same problem all other companies are…………..lack of capital, lack of $$$$$$$, lack of income. (They get their income from …….the government who contracts for their services)

It matters not who is in the governor’s office. The legislature passed the measure, the governor only signed the bill.

Look at your numbers from the last election. I’ll bet 3000 votes times maybe ….lets go 4 other family members would be about 12,000 votes …………(even double that and I doubt there would be a difference)…..wouldn’t change the election results one bit. Union SUPPORT can easily push a candidate over the top. Union opposition still has to overcome the tide of the election. Incumbents (especially democrats) will have to ride the overall tide of how the electorate feels the current POTUS is running the country.

Originally Posted by COSpitfire

someone told me today that DOC is paying a $5000 fine each month because the building is considered condemned (don't know if it's true though about the $5000), basically unlivable. the only way that someone would buy that is if they would tear the place down and rebuild or put the money into repairs and i am not sure it's worth it.
it will probably cost more money to repair the dump than tearing it down and building a new one.

I am going to debunk that myth.
There is a cellhouse at my institution that was originally built in 1880. It has electricity and running cold water but NO HOT WATER. I have heard for 30 yrs that the state condemned the building and we shouldn’t be using it. Do you really think that the state would assume the liability of housing people in a condemned building? Do you really think that OSHA, the department of health, or the fire marshal would allow us to house inmates LOCKED in cells in an unsafe or “condemned” building for any length of time?

Back in the 70’s we did have a cellblock that was in terrible shape. The state found the money to gut it and rebuild it…………….because it was unsafe.

Don’t plan on a “condemned” building to stop the sale of an entire complex.

Originally Posted by COSpitfire

another theory that one of the COIIIs cam e up with is that the Federal might be stepping in and buy it.

The feds are not the saviors that we normally think they are. I seriously doubt the BOP will be able to bail you out……………..they have their own problems associated with the fact they are opening several new institutions as we speak. $$$$ isn’t as readily available to them -------just like it isn’t to us.

Originally Posted by COSpitfire

There are so many theories out there now that it'll make your head spin but my guess all the theories derive from fear, not knowing what'll happen to us, not knowing what's next. i'm telling you, we (the country) is going down in a hand basket. the thing is that NO industry is safe from going under, so, nobody can really afford to leave DOC because no matter where they go, there is no security anywhere right now. spoke with a colleague today who's husband is a cop, i wanted to know if they are facing problems and she said the only thing that happend to them was that for one year no pay raise and they lost 2% pay but no fear of lay offs. however, i don't put my hopes in any industry anymore. i'll just stay put and ride it out, see what happens and put my faith in the LORD.

Your GOVERNMENT job is still the safest job in the country. Your CORRECTIONS job is probably “more safer” than almost any other government job. We are still considered a growth industry with new institutions opening up (or being planned and constructed) nationwide. Read the news daily and see that there will always be criminals and there will always be the need to house those criminals away from “polite society”

The few police agencies that are experiencing layoffs are the exception to the rule. Most LEO agencies are simply doing more with less, cutting OT, forgoing raises, leaving empty FTE’s empty. The agencies that are laying off are doing so because the rank and file refuse to work with the administration in trying to keep costs down………………………..remember in our profession the major cost of operations are salary issues. (about 90 to 92 % of a correctional institution’s budget is salary) The remaining 8-10% is all other costs and you can only cut so much in food costs, maintenance costs, and utilities. Police agencies have similar structure.

Originally Posted by COSpitfire

what frustrates me, i wanted to buy a house BUT with all this uncertainty, i can't and i won't enter into such a responsibility just to end up failing because of it all. these people keep playing with our lives, with our livelihoods while their butts are sitting in cushy chairs and they're playing golf every weekend BUT...my faith is strong and if there is one thing that i've learned in life, people who keep doing the rotten things will one day run into a brick wall, it's inevitable. everything comes to an end sooner or later. hang in there brothers and sisters, don't give up just yet.

I agree to hang in there people. I too, would not want to enter into a mortgage today. However remember that housing prices today are at the lowest we have seen them in many years. NOW Is the time to BUY a house.

I would try to stay with the state if at all possible. Seniority and pension should keep you wanting to remain .

Those of you with at least 5 yrs in are pretty safe as far as job security. In the worst case scenario, your seniority would probably enable you to transfer to another institution should your facility get bought out by one of the privates (and you didn’t stay).

I’ll bet the new owners will have some pretty good offers for experiences staff (and potential supervisory material). Advancement is not too shabby in the private sector of corrections.



Like I said in the beginning --------------------I don’t have a stake in your troubles. I have however run thru more than a couple very tight budget cycles in the last 32 yrs and came close a couple times to layoffs. 2=5 yrs of nothing then an upturn where we are flush for a few years…………………………and then the cycle repeats. Its been that way as long as I have been on the job…………………………………my advice is KEEP ON PLUGGING ON.


As a side note…………………………………the last fiscal year ended June 30. Our budget was status quo from the preceding year (and our current budget is also status quo) We were able to buckle down and scrimp. We ended up $9000 in the black on a $30 million dollar budget AND housed 150 extra County Jail inmates and their associated county jail staff (meals wise) for 9 months due to flooding. (FEMA reimbursement was paid directly to the State General Fund rather than into our budget).
It’s been tight………………………………….it’s been uncomfortable…………………………….It’s been challenging, but it was do-able.

[COSpitfire]

Originally Posted by Iowa #1603

Mind if I make a few comments?
This comes from someone who has no agenda or stake in the outcome of your troubles.

I want to note that as of today it APPEARS that the economy has probably turned the corner. The “recession” has for the most part ended and sales are going up in most camps. The EFFECTS of the recession will continue for a bit yet.

It normally takes about 18 months for tax receipts to notice the end of a recession……………..which is about how long it takes for the government to acknowledge that they were in a recession to begin with. (they use a rule of thumb that it takes about 5 full quarters of downturn before they call it official)

Therefore it will take about 1 ½ years before your state government sees increased revenue. It’s going to be a long time before we find a increase in our budgets.

Sure the union will fight it. All they really need to do is delay the implementation for a year or so. By then the economy will have turned around enough to START to show that many cost cutting measures are really not going to be needed anymore. PLUS they would still have to find a buyer. Guess what……………….PRIVATE corrections are suffering from the same problem all other companies are…………..lack of capital, lack of $$$$$$$, lack of income. (They get their income from …….the government who contracts for their services)

It matters not who is in the governor’s office. The legislature passed the measure, the governor only signed the bill.

Look at your numbers from the last election. I’ll bet 3000 votes times maybe ….lets go 4 other family members would be about 12,000 votes …………(even double that and I doubt there would be a difference)…..wouldn’t change the election results one bit. Union SUPPORT can easily push a candidate over the top. Union opposition still has to overcome the tide of the election. Incumbents (especially democrats) will have to ride the overall tide of how the electorate feels the current POTUS is running the country.

I am going to debunk that myth.
There is a cellhouse at my institution that was originally built in 1880. It has electricity and running cold water but NO HOT WATER. I have heard for 30 yrs that the state condemned the building and we shouldn’t be using it. Do you really think that the state would assume the liability of housing people in a condemned building? Do you really think that OSHA, the department of health, or the fire marshal would allow us to house inmates LOCKED in cells in an unsafe or “condemned” building for any length of time?

Back in the 70’s we did have a cellblock that was in terrible shape. The state found the money to gut it and rebuild it…………….because it was unsafe.

Don’t plan on a “condemned” building to stop the sale of an entire complex.


The feds are not the saviors that we normally think they are. I seriously doubt the BOP will be able to bail you out……………..they have their own problems associated with the fact they are opening several new institutions as we speak. $$$$ isn’t as readily available to them -------just like it isn’t to us.


Your GOVERNMENT job is still the safest job in the country. Your CORRECTIONS job is probably “more safer” than almost any other government job. We are still considered a growth industry with new institutions opening up (or being planned and constructed) nationwide. Read the news daily and see that there will always be criminals and there will always be the need to house those criminals away from “polite society”

The few police agencies that are experiencing layoffs are the exception to the rule. Most LEO agencies are simply doing more with less, cutting OT, forgoing raises, leaving empty FTE’s empty. The agencies that are laying off are doing so because the rank and file refuse to work with the administration in trying to keep costs down………………………..remember in our profession the major cost of operations are salary issues. (about 90 to 92 % of a correctional institution’s budget is salary) The remaining 8-10% is all other costs and you can only cut so much in food costs, maintenance costs, and utilities. Police agencies have similar structure.




I agree to hang in there people. I too, would not want to enter into a mortgage today. However remember that housing prices today are at the lowest we have seen them in many years. NOW Is the time to BUY a house.

I would try to stay with the state if at all possible. Seniority and pension should keep you wanting to remain .

Those of you with at least 5 yrs in are pretty safe as far as job security. In the worst case scenario, your seniority would probably enable you to transfer to another institution should your facility get bought out by one of the privates (and you didn’t stay).

I’ll bet the new owners will have some pretty good offers for experiences staff (and potential supervisory material). Advancement is not too shabby in the private sector of corrections.



Like I said in the beginning --------------------I don’t have a stake in your troubles. I have however run thru more than a couple very tight budget cycles in the last 32 yrs and came close a couple times to layoffs. 2=5 yrs of nothing then an upturn where we are flush for a few years…………………………and then the cycle repeats. Its been that way as long as I have been on the job…………………………………my advice is KEEP ON PLUGGING ON.


As a side note…………………………………the last fiscal year ended June 30. Our budget was status quo from the preceding year (and our current budget is also status quo) We were able to buckle down and scrimp. We ended up $9000 in the black on a $30 million dollar budget AND housed 150 extra County Jail inmates and their associated county jail staff (meals wise) for 9 months due to flooding. (FEMA reimbursement was paid directly to the State General Fund rather than into our budget).
It’s been tight………………………………….it’s been uncomfortable…………………………….It’s been challenging, but it was do-able.

Thank You Iowa....I was actually thinking of the old timers of corrections and thinking that they've probably gone through many ups and down during their careers and they survived and it gives me hope that this too shall pass as all things do. You are always the voice of reason and wisdom Iowa and I thank you for it.

[HACKINIT]

From what little you guys know it sounds like the same thing the Federal Government did when Bush took office. He classified our jobs with the BOP as not being inherently governmental which left them open to possibly being contracted out. Something a lot of people forget is one really negative aspect about the republicans, they do not support government employees at all, they think we are overpaid, lazy, etc., etc., and should be contracted out.