"No Confidence" BOP Director

[copboy]

It is sad. I am in management, and it seems that the battles between union and management get so petty. People want it both ways. They jump to file on us, but if we say anything, we are told you have to use progressive discipline. Some feel that management has to be perfect, and they stab the supervisor that tries to look out for them in the back. Yes. There are supervisors who have moved up in the BOP who should not have. But can you just once step back, look at the picture and give us a break when we make an honest mistake? Especially if we say "I was wrong"??? Here is a question. Has any union rep told a staff member that they knew was dead wrong and said "Youre on your own if you go in and lie?"

[KBCraig]

Originally Posted by copboy

Has any union rep told a staff member that they knew was dead wrong and said "Youre on your own if you go in and lie?"

I can't "know" they're dead wrong, since I'm not an investigator and don't have all the facts. But I have told every person I've ever repped, that if they lie, they're screwed.

[KBCraig]

copboy, the late N.L. Connor had a famous saying: "There are two kinds of mistakes staff make: mistakes of the head, and mistakes of the heart. I can forgive mistakes of the head, but if your heart is wrong, I can't overlook that."

I can work with BOP supervisors who just don't know what they're doing. My first step as a union rep is always to figure out if they even know what they did was wrong. Then I usually run into that "mistake of the heart" situation -- too many don't care that they're wrong, they want to insist on doing it their way.

Harley falls into that category.

[Movementarian]

Originally Posted by KBCraig

Very few BOP employees are members of FOP (I'm not; I don't even know how to join), and yet FOP has stood up for us repeatedly on LEOSA matters.

Contact your State Lodge. They can provide you information on the local lodge or information for starting your own if there is enough interest.

Originally Posted by KBCraig

Phil got all hot and warned them that it was against the constitution to belong to another union, and threatened to kick them out for joining FOP.

The FOP is a fraternal organization and only acts as a bargaining unit in cases where they are empowered in that capacity. Otherwise they act as more like a lobbying group. That is like saying they would kick you out for being a member of the American Legion.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Originally Posted by KBCraig

Phil got all hot and warned them that it was against the constitution to belong to another union, and threatened to kick them out for joining FOP.

Their's isn't a union/union member relationship since FOP can't represent them with the agency. There's is an association/ association member relationship. Phil was talking out his ass about violating their right to associate with whomever they wish.

[Crosstimbers Okie]

Originally Posted by copboy

Here is a question. Has any union rep told a staff member that they knew was dead wrong and said "Youre on your own if you go in and lie?"

They had better not. If they do they are violating federal law. The union has a duty to represent that bargaining unit member if they request it, whether they like it or not. It's not negotiable, it's law. It's like a defense attorney telling his client, "if you lie to the authorities, I will not represent you." It's a good way to get dis-barred, or worse.

[BOP Hack]

Originally Posted by KBCraig

As an officer in my AFGE local, I would have no qualms aligning with FOP instead of AFGE. AFGE is too closely aligned with the interests of AFL/CIO, which often works against BOP interests. Very few BOP employees are members of FOP (I'm not; I don't even know how to join), and yet FOP has stood up for us repeatedly on LEOSA matters.

Copboy, I know what you mean about Phil and LEOSA (and FOP). At a regional caucus in 2005, some folks brought up LEOSA, and the FOP's role. Phil got all hot and warned them that it was against the constitution to belong to another union, and threatened to kick them out for joining FOP.

By the sounds of all this, if AFGE and AFL/CIO work against our interests in the BOP, then I think we need to send a message to Brian Lowery that CPL 33 should at the least associate with FOP so that all BOP locals can get more info and provide more for all of us who are LEO's!

[Crosstimbers Okie]

The "Council" is an AFGE council structure. It is a component of AFGE. It would cease to exist if another union became the exclusive representative.

[copboy]

If I am not mistaken, the role of the union when they go before the Warden is to make sure the punishment is fair across the board. If the warden gave 2 days of street time to one officer for an infraction, he doesnt give 8 days to the next for oersonal reasons. The union rep is not a defense attorney. When it gets to the SIA interview, to I would hope the union would tell the officer if they lie they are screwed because now YOUR reputation is on the line.

[copboy]

I guess it comes down to integrity. If I know the person in lying to save himself when he is being accused. Yes sometimes it is clear that the person is guilty. What affect does that now have when you go in to represent someone who is innocent? You are not a defense attorney. You are there to make sure that his rights are not violated.